double-you tee eff
Yes it's Albert. Yes I'm alive.
Now with the particulars out of the way.
The Raven. What the eff.
What is the raven supposed to represent? I mean, all he says is "nevermore." I'd figure that it'd be more of a parrot rather than a raven. And besides, since when can ravens talk?
The most convincing argument I've got is that the raven represents the narrator's sensibility. He still is thinking about Lenore and the raven is saying "Yo, she's dead. Move on." If the raven/his sensibility didn't tell him what's up, he'd still be thinking about Lenore and whatnot. And living in the past is bad. Right?
Also, I think the narrator's a bit loco. This, however, seems to be a prevailing theme throughout all of Poe's works we've read thus far, except for the masque of the red death. His other works that we haven't read, such as the telltale heart, feature a man who's really off his rocker. Any ideas why Poe includes crazy people in his stories?
More questions:
Is the use of the raven significant? Could this story have been accomplished as well with another bird? (a crow?)
Could this story represent a point in Poe's life? i.e. A lost love?
Is the fact that there was no one at the door significant? If so, what does that represent?
And lastly,
Was there alcohol involved? O.o
See y'all
Now with the particulars out of the way.
The Raven. What the eff.
What is the raven supposed to represent? I mean, all he says is "nevermore." I'd figure that it'd be more of a parrot rather than a raven. And besides, since when can ravens talk?
The most convincing argument I've got is that the raven represents the narrator's sensibility. He still is thinking about Lenore and the raven is saying "Yo, she's dead. Move on." If the raven/his sensibility didn't tell him what's up, he'd still be thinking about Lenore and whatnot. And living in the past is bad. Right?
Also, I think the narrator's a bit loco. This, however, seems to be a prevailing theme throughout all of Poe's works we've read thus far, except for the masque of the red death. His other works that we haven't read, such as the telltale heart, feature a man who's really off his rocker. Any ideas why Poe includes crazy people in his stories?
More questions:
Is the use of the raven significant? Could this story have been accomplished as well with another bird? (a crow?)
Could this story represent a point in Poe's life? i.e. A lost love?
Is the fact that there was no one at the door significant? If so, what does that represent?
And lastly,
Was there alcohol involved? O.o
See y'all
14 Comments:
"Ravens have high bird intelligence and are perhaps the smartest birds. Their intelligence might be on par with canids like wolves."
- from Wikipedia
The use of the raven is, of course, significant. Otherwise Poe wouldn't have used a raven. As mentioned by the quote above, ravens are highly intelligent birds which could be one reason why Poe used it. This bird is telling the narrator to move on after Lenore's death by telling the narrator that she will return "nevermore." Thus, the raven symbolizes the rationality that the narrator must use to get on with his life.
I like this theory, but it goes against what we discussed in class. Someone (I forget who now) said in class that the raven was representative of nonsense. From this my group inferred that its sitting on the bust of Pallas (Athena: goddess of wisdom) was the reconciling of the irrational with the rational. Frankly, I just don't get this theory. If anyone would like to shed some light on how the raven is representative of nonsense, please do!
And Albert, I believe Poe used crazy people in all his writing because it allowed him to explore the human psyche. The crazy people that he wrote about have exaggerated conditions of a normal human mind. By exaggerating these abnormalities, Poe was able to more easily explore how the human mind works. His method is similar to the way in which scientists use microscopes to make things bigger in order to see subtle differences.
I'll have to disagree with you Liz.
By creating a character, you're not really exploring the human psyche. You might be exploring your own psyche, but not the human race in general.
It's a compelling theory, but it doesn't work. His creation of a character is simply that. A creation. His own personal opinion of what the human mind is all about.
However, if you consider that Poe could have been a very observant fellow and could discern various patterns in human behavior, then that theory has some weight, if not being correct. Illustrating the human psyche by exaggerating them is a very convincing argument with that premise.
I do agree with your finding on how the raven represents intelligence and rationality. It falls right in line with what I posted. :D
gahhh i really need to learn how to create a new post!
So today we started reading Nathaniel Hawthorne..sweeettt
Actually, no, i really do like his stories so far.
Both "Young Goodman Brown" and "The Minister's Black Veil" had the intriguing element of mystery incorporated in their plots. In the first story, the reader knew that there was something troubling Goodman; however, it wasn't necessarily distinct what it was. Goodman wasn't sure of his faith, and I believe the elder he was walking with wanted to guide him to a revelation that could help him sort out his feelings towards faith. Goodman was doubting whether faith really existed. This is not at uncommon thought to cross the minds of people, particularly in a Puritan community where tension is always present.
The main essence of the story behind "The Minister's Black Veil" was the concept of concealing one's sins. Mr. Hooper believed that everyone had a black veil upon his/her face and that no one on earth was ever truly able to entirely convey their feelings to another. He was trying to make a point to the community that sin and secrets are amongst them; however, the barrier between people is not tangible and outwardly noticeable (as was the veil upon his face). Sin and secrets are feared in the Puritan community; therefore, if we look at the black veil as a symbol of secrets and sins, then we can see its effects clearly. The children fled, the surrounding people conspired, and the one bearing the secrets and sins became inwardly lonely as a result of being shunned.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Going back to THE RAVEN.
(A Preface: Perhaps I completely misheard Ms. Hughes, but I'm 95% sure that I'm right on this one.)
Albert & Elizabeth: Assuming that Ms. Hughes's interpretation of The Raven is the most correct (which I assume, seeing as she will be grading any tests we take on this) the raven represents emotion and irrationality.
So for now, let's assume that the raven symbolizes emotion and irrationality. When the raven (emotion/irrationality) sits on top of the bust of Pallas (wisdom/rationality), irrationality overcomes reason. If you look at the general content of The Raven, this actually makes a lot of sense.
Initially, the narrator is suppressing his feelings for and thoughts of Lenore by reading old tomes of ancient "lore." The narrator has a bust of Pallas in his chamber to convey that he is scholarly. (This conclusion is derived from Poe's own explanation of Pallas's presence). Clearly, the narrator knows how to utilize reason in his thoughts.
The longer the narrator talks to the raven, the less reasonable/intelligble he becomes. I certainly cannot follow the narrator's thought pattern when he decides that posing deeply personal and meaningful questions to the raven is a good idea. Though his first question to the raven is playful, "What's your name, little guy?" the narrator asks progressively more serious questions in a progressively more serious tone. By the end of the poem, the narrator has worked himself up into a fury and yells at the raven to get out. Most rational people wouldn't yell at a bird to go back to the Underworld... Most rational people wouldn't pose questions to what essentially amounts to a parrot (going off of Albert's analogy) and give any real credence to the responses of said parrot (or raven).
Well, hopefully that made some sense... I really hope I didn't base all of that on a misconception of what Ms. Hughes said.
--Danielle
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
I agree with you Rachel. By taking the form of Goodman Brown's grandfather he not only shows that anyone can be influenced by the devil, but by picking someone close the Brown, he makes his point "hit home" more.
For example, when 9/11 happened we, the collective south Jersey community of Moorestown, were devastated, and concerned for the well-being of those in New York. This is because most of, if not all of us have been there at least once, and we know people there. Because we were so close to the city both geologically and emotionally, we cared more. However, people in Arkansas probably didn't care half as much as we did. This is because they didn't have the same emotional connection as we did.
For those of you who say, "That's nonsense of course they care!” how many of you have helped to rebuild a city in Arkansas after a Tornado? Or even thought about the 200 some people killed in the said Tornado. Probably not a lot of you, and there's nothing wrong with that, if you have no connection to those people there is less reason to care.
Therefore, the devils use of Goodman Brown's Grandfather allowed him to lower Goodman Browns guard, as well as theoretically letting him think that devil worship wasn’t so bad after all.
Very true Bill. Now i think it it clear among the class that i do not understand things after i read them so forgive me for my elementary posts and questions.
Is there anywhere in the beginning of the story that says where he actually intends on going. Everyone had a bad feeling so we knew it wouldnt be a good traveling experience. But, in this long dream of his, did he intend to go with all the other converts to the congregation.
Where did he intend on going when leaving from the house? Just go and fall asleep in the woods?
If anyone could clear that little part up for me it would be much appreciated.
Love,
Scotty P
This comment has been removed by the author.
Post hijackers
:P
Post a Comment
<< Home