Monday, May 28, 2007

Ranna talks about whitman

here ya go ranna :D

Ranna said...
i STILL don't know how to post a new topic so i'm going to talk about whitman here:

Whitman presents the idea that he wants people to step out into new experiences through his opening stanza:"Healthy, free, the world before me,The long brown path before me leading wherever I chose."

He depicts the transcendental belief in self-dependancy and individualism when he says "Henceforth I ask not good-fortune, I myself am good-fortune"

Section 9 introduced the concept that one must "endure" in order to to reach their ultimate goal. People may face temptation to sell themselves short when they tire; however, Whitman's philosophy encourages people to persevere until they accomplish the entirety of their goal. This is evident in the lines:
"However shelter'd this port and however calm these waters, we must not anchor here, However welcome the hospitality that surrounds us we are permitted to receive it but a little while."
The concept is reinforced in section 14 when Whitman says:
"Now understand me well -- it is provided in the essence of things that from any fruition of success, no matter what, shall come forth something to make struggle necessary"

Whitman tries to persuade the reader that the "juice is worth the squeeze," and that one must be determined and persistent to be able to squeeze the juice out.
11:06 PM

9 Comments:

Blogger Winnie said...

I wanted to comment about Whitman’s "I Hear America Singing." The poem focuses on the importance of the individual and well as each individual taking pride in their particular place in the world. The last three lines seem to suggest that during the day people should do what they need to do with work and whatnot and that the night is for celebrating and showing that people are more than their work. Whitman is advocating living in the moment and being content with where you are on your journey through life.
This poem seems to provide a reason for Whitman's love of city life - the collection of all different kinds of people, who take pride and focus on their individual tasks and goals but whose lives are unintentionally intertwined.

9:14 PM  
Blogger Elizabeth Johnson said...

I completely agree with you Winnie, so I don't really have anything to add to "I Hear America Singing." So then onto the next poem....

Whitman's "The Commonplace" seemed very similar to his "When I Heard the Learn'd Astronomer" in many ways. In "The Commonplace," Whitman speaks of the simple joys "The open air I sing, freedom, toleration, ... The common day and night...", which reminded me of how he disregards the what the astronomer says and goes out to enjoy the stars simply for what they are.
By looking at these two poems and "Song of the Open Road," it is evident that Whitman places a lot of value on the simple things in life and life experiences. All three poems assert that it is more important to learn through experiences and that the things one learns from books and in school is not as important. This book knowledge will not help you move forward in life and will not lead to higher enlightenment.

10:23 PM  
Blogger SPal1989 said...

Mr. Lazarow touched on it today, about how Whitman altough sounding like he didnt appreciate education, really did. I'm sure he believed that it helped you in life but, you are probably right about real life experiences being more important and rewarding.

If that is the main thing about Transcendentalism, then call me a Transcendenalist, because (Laz might hate me for this) I take more value in the things I learn just by living everyday. I believe education is important but, I feel the only way you learn is through an actual experience.

So, anyone want to hang out in the woods with me later?!?!

6:40 PM  
Blogger caroline cross said...

I wanted to talk about the topic in class the other day over whether or not we need the science behind things to appreciate their beauty. First of all, I agree with Whitman that formal education only cuts it so far. I think that it is good that schools have a curriculum because people have to be exposed to things before they discover that what they like and dislike. However, there comes a point when people have a basic understanding of a variety of subjects, and then they should chose the ones that they like best to pursue with further studying.

Now comes the question about whether the "science" behind things is needed to help people better appreciate beauty. Since people only have so much time to learn about things, they prioritize and chose to study what interests them. Thus learning how a computer works is pointless for me (I am terrible with technological things and thus hate most of them), and there's nothing wrong with my never knowing how a computer works. However, I love music, and so I have been curious in the past as to how a piano and harp work. Although I can't give you exact equations for the movement of harp strings and whatnot, I have some understanding as to the mechanics of these instruments. This helps me appreciate the complexity of the harp and piano, but it is not really necessary for me to appreciate the beauty of harp and piano. In the end, it is how the harp and piano sound, not how they are built, that matters. (Although, I will admit that understanding how a piano works helps people know the varying ways to press the keys, which cause the hammers to hit the strings in different ways and make different tones).

I think that the science behind things does help people appreciate the skill put behind things or their complexity, but does not help beauty to be appreciated. The truth is that The School of Athens probably had more science behind its creation than Monet paintings, but I personally would rather look at a Monet painting than The School of Athens. Therefore I agree with Whitman that beauty can be appreciated without explanations. That's why Whitman advocated in “When I heard the Learn’d Astronomer” that people go out into nature and simply see its beauty, and not be formally educated about it.

Time to completely change the topic. In the last section of "Song of Myself" (LII), Whitman truly shows his transcendentalism. He basically talks about how he will eventually become part of the earth when he dies ("I depart as air, I shake my white locks at the runaway sun, I effuse my flesh in eddies, and drift it in lacy jags). Although Emerson and Thoreau shared this view with Whitman, Whitman views it as a way to join the world but also have a communion with the rest of the world. He says, "you will hardly know who I am or what I mean, but I shall be good health to you nevertheless, and filter and fibre your blood...I stop somewhere waiting for you." Although Whitman advocates individualism and glorifies that he is an individual in this poem, he recognizes that people have relationships with each other and will always be together because the dead will join the earth and thus still be with the living. Emerson and Thoreau especially were different in that emphasized the individual to the point of being a hermit (i.e. living alone in a house in the woods!).
--Caroline

7:35 PM  
Blogger Danielle G said...

During class the other day, Mr. Lazarow asked the question "At what point does natural curiosity [as of a child] cease?"

I definitely agree that children tend to be really curious about everything, eagerly asking questions. I honestly don't know when/why/how children's natural curiosity ceases... Maybe they feel discouraged because adults don't respect their questions.

To a certain extent, I blame the death of natural curiosity on progress. There are so many things about which one can learn that it's way too intimidating to tackle all subjects all at once. The enormous progress that has been made in all subject areas over time means, especially for kids in high school, that a lot of material must be learned... The argument can be made that kids' brains are so fried from schoolwork that they don't have the intellectual energy to pursue their own interests.

I feel a bit uncomfortable admitting this, but I'm intimidated by all of the things that have been discovered. I feel intimidated by my predecessors' achievements. I fear I won't be able to make achievements as significant as those made previously. I'm afraid of failing to find answers to questions I pose to myself... of setting goals too great to achieve. To a certain extent, I feel like I'm competing with every person who came before me. I know that is somewhat ridiculous, but perhaps some of you may relate to that feeling.

Anyway, the point of my above ramble is that because I'm so intimidated by those who have come before me, I fear to even pose questions to myself or to find my own answers. Perhaps I (or we) repress my curiosity due to fear.

10:33 PM  
Blogger Theresa said...

On education-
I agree with everyone else. One can only learn so much from books. Life is about the physical- what is done, what is said, who you meet. You may learn more from the old man on the subway than you do from your high school English teacher. (Just kidding Mr. Laz). I think this may be why Whitman loved cities. There are so many varied people to talk to and learn from in a city. Whitman obviously loved interacting with people. Winnie actually put it quite a bit more eloquently in her post.

On science-
Science has a way of making things cold and distant so they are easier to observe objectively. In that sense, I think science does detract from finding the beauty in life. While I agree with Caroline that science can cultivate appreciation, it is different than pure aesthetic appreciation.

On "I Hear America Singing" and "Song of Myself"-
Has anyone noticed that Whitman has a habit of listing. You can especially see this in the list of people in "I Hear America Singing." Whitman employs similar tactics in the unabridged portion of "Song of Myself". Though I can see how some would see this as boring, I think that it is effective in transmitting Whitman's personal experiences to his readers. I think he wants the readers to feel like they are seeing what he is seeing. Going back to "Song of the Open Road", it is like he wants us right there next to him on the path of life. This present tense cataloguing of sights, people, and feelings helps Whitman put the reader in his frame of mind. I like it, actually.

10:37 PM  
Blogger Theresa said...

And Danielle, you posted while I was writing. I think you bring up an excellent point, and you should be commended for publicizing a very personal issue.

I think part of the suppression of natural curiosity has to due with formal education. Though our society considers this type of structured instruction necessary, Walt's qualms are entirely valid. How are children supposed to pursue their own curious inclination when they are told exactly what they should be learning? We just threw individualism out the window right there, didn't we?

Maybe our educational system also helps instill fear. Cram a bunch of insecure pre-teens into a building and challenge them to be different? It simply is not done. We set standards, and we conform, whether it is consciously or not. And I dare someone to tell me that they are never self-conscious. Let's be serious. There is a way that we all act in public. Is that really us? I don't know. Maybe we would be more curious if we did not fear the judgments of our peers. Simply a theory...

10:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

About "I Hear America Singing"...
I found the patriotism in the poem actually somewhat surprising, considering the fact that Civil Disobedience, etc. tended to question certain aspects of American life. But this particular poem expresses a love for the varying types of creativity and different forms of achievement in America.
There seems to be some unity among diversity, too. Though each person mentioned in the poem is doing a separate job and setting a different goal, they are all 'singing', nevertheless.

I like the listing too, actually. I think in this poem, especially, it effectively this relationship between the individual and unity.

10:55 PM  
Blogger jstaffff said...

I agree with the fact that using singing as the connecting tool was perfect. Again, his learn in the fields and workshops not in school motif showed up. I especially liked how he intertwined all of the different ages and occupations with the idea of a simple song. Maybe it's because i'm just into music, but sometimes singing can be a very powerful and rebel rousing tool.

6:55 PM  

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