HP5--Your Thoughts?
I saw it.
Dd I WANT to see it? No.
Did my son want to see it? Yes.
So, I saw it. At least he didn't make me go at midnight.
But next week, I'm going to a midnight release party for HP7.
That's just crazy. But I'm doing it for the boy. How noble!
Here's your chance to talk it all out: HP fans--What did you think of the film adaptation of HP5? (We'll assume that there's an understood spoiler alert pertaining to all comments that follow this post)
AND--perhaps most interesting to me--based on your understanding of the mythic heroic archetypal structure (which HP so clearly follows, and I do not doubt it will continue to follow to the end), what do you predict for HP7?
LAZ
Dd I WANT to see it? No.
Did my son want to see it? Yes.
So, I saw it. At least he didn't make me go at midnight.
But next week, I'm going to a midnight release party for HP7.
That's just crazy. But I'm doing it for the boy. How noble!
Here's your chance to talk it all out: HP fans--What did you think of the film adaptation of HP5? (We'll assume that there's an understood spoiler alert pertaining to all comments that follow this post)
AND--perhaps most interesting to me--based on your understanding of the mythic heroic archetypal structure (which HP so clearly follows, and I do not doubt it will continue to follow to the end), what do you predict for HP7?
LAZ
posted by L Lazarow | 10:10 PM
12 Comments:
There was actually an article somewhere concerning whether the death of Harry made sense:
HARRY POTTER DEATH MAKES MYTHOLOGICAL SENSE?
NEW YORK - Brace yourselves, Harry Potter fans. No matter how desperate you are for Harry to live, some experts in classic literature and mythology say that finishing off the young wizard would make sense — in a literary kind of way.
J.K. Rowling has never shied from darkness in her phenomenally successful series — it started with the murder of Harry’s parents, continued through his discovery that an evil wizard was trying to destroy him, and has included pain and torture and the deaths of major characters.
She’s already promised two deaths in the seventh and final book, “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows,” coming out July 21, and has refused to commit to Harry surviving. But she couldn’t kill Harry off, could she? She wouldn’t do that, would she?
“If you look at the tradition of the epic hero ... there is this sort of pattern that the hero delivers people to the promised land but does not see it himself,” said Lana Whited, professor of English at Ferrum College in Ferrum , Va., pointing out examples from King Arthur to Moses to Frodo.
Greek mythology has plenty of examples, like Hercules, who was killed at the height of his strength, said Mary Lefkowitz, a retired classics professor who taught at Wellesley College in Massachusetts.
“There’s no long promise of happiness,” she said. “You may have brief moments of glory and then the darkness comes.”
And don’t be fooled into thinking a happy ending is automatic just because the main characters are young, said Anne Collins Smith, assistant professor of philosophy and classical studies at Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches, Texas.
“Just because it’s children’s literature doesn’t mean it can’t have very dark events in it,” she said.
Others aren’t convinced, saying that Rowling’s story about Harry and his adventures is less influenced by classical mythology than it is by other storytelling traditions.
Philip Ray, an associate professor of English at Connecticut College, said Rowling was part of a tradition of British writers like Edith Nesbit, writing stories where children are the focus and have grand adventures.
Since Harry is about to finish his years at Hogwarts, Ray said, “I think it would be very unusual for a book like this to kill off the main character at a time when he’s about to graduate from school.”
The books are about Harry’s development into a young man, Ray said.
“For Rowling to have put Harry Potter through all seven volumes just to kill him off, the point of all development would be wasted,” Ray said. “Death strikes me as being the strangest ending of all.”
And even though the series has a dark aspect to it, Rowling hasn’t set it up in such a way that Harry paying the ultimate price would make sense, said Tim Morris, who teaches English at the University of Texas at Arlington.
“I don’t get the sense that J.K. Rowling has set us up for that kind of sacrifice,” he said. “The first six books haven’t given a sense of that tragedy to me. It’s generally hopeful.”
Whited acknowledges that reader outrage would be high if Harry died, and that it might seem cruel to younger readers, who aren’t familiar with classic literary story arcs.
“I’m sure J.K. Rowling would get some howlers if Harry Potter did not survive,” she said.
But even if he lives, don’t be surprised if it’s a hard-fought victory, she said. Another aspect of the classic hero myth is that even if he wins, it’s not without some loss.
“There are always sacrifices, compromises along the way,” she said. “If Harry doesn’t die, one of his friends will.”
Y'know, I recently read an article in Time that highlighted the one aspect of Harry Potter that was pretty deviant from "classic" literature. That is, there is no divine power. Instead there is only the power of love (so the article insinuates). In other "great" works of literature, there is always God thrown in there somewhere, whereas Harry Potter has no allusions to that big guy up in the sky.
As for what will happen to Harry, I hope the little punk dies. He's done nothing but b*tch and moan about the lot he's been dealt and the "heroic" things he's done has always been with people helping. Especially in the goblet of fire, there are always random people giving him hints on how to conquer this obstacle, etc. As of now, I haven't seen any maturation of Harry. In fact, I think that Harry has become more immature as time went on. In the first book he was pretty quiet, knew his place, etc. Now he's just a stubborn little brat that whines when things don't go his way.
Now you may say that the help he acquired in the big fights at the end of each book comes in the form of a guide. Dumbledore always seems to give that lifesaving advice that never makes sense until you actually need it. But considering how many times he's helped Harry, one has to wonder when Harry will grow up and face things on his own? The answer, Book 7. Dumbledore's dead. Who's the guide now? Lupin? Sirius? If this does indeed follow the mythic heroic archetype, Harry will (finally) mature and without a guide, take down that last major obstacle, i.e. Voldemort.
But my whole take on this may change. Harry might become likeable again as he was in the first couple of books. In the end, I might hope Harry won't die.
But, this still doesn't answer the question of whether Harry dies or not. I do not have a definitive answer for that, but if he does live, I have this prediction: Harry will inevitably live a lonely life. Be it because Hermione and Ron die, his two best friends at Hogwarts, or that he will always be remembered as the teenager who killed Voldemort, he will always be outcast by society. Maybe he will be embraced by society for a little while, but inevitably he'll be known as "that guy."
It's lonely at the top :P
Albert's comment reminded me of Orson Scott Card's series, which revolves around a character named Ender Wiggin. (I highly recommend the series to all; if you enjoy deep science fiction, you will love Card.)
Ender saves the human race, but suffers a metaphorical and literal estrangement from human society as a result of his "heroism." We've seen the same phenomenon with Harry. The magical public’s opinion of Harry is fickle; he is alternately vilified and adored in the press and by his peers (as evidenced in HP5 – the movie/book).
I agree and disagree with Albert about Harry being a whiny brat in the later books. In the first book or two, Harry doesn’t seem to have much of a personality. Rowling’s prose is a lot simpler in the first few books, and reading them was tedious. Harry’s behavior in the later books definitely annoyed me, especially in Book 5, but his moaning was at least somewhat justified, considering the enormous stress on his shoulders (of having to kill or be killed by Voldemort). I feel that Harry’s character developed a lot over the course of the six books… He seems like more of a real person (albeit an angsty one) in Books 4, 5, and 6 than in the earlier ones. With the mythic heroic archetype, I think Harry’s “temptation” to abandon his quest manifests itself in his frequent complaints. Harry never seems to truly consider abandoning the quest, which seems odd to me. I guess he doesn’t really think about ditching his mission because he feels that doing so would just allow Voldemort to kill him and take power even sooner.
From the article Tina copied and pasted, I’m not convinced of whether or not Harry will live. Personally, I really want Harry to live… It’d be a very depressing ending to the series if he died, and it would let down a lot of kids. But! I’m going to predict that Voldemort and Harry are the two main characters that die in HP7. (Although I don’t want my guess to be fulfilled.)
So, moving on to the movie. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix… awful. It misrepresented a lot of stuff in the book (I guess for the sake of simplicity), but I felt that it took a lot away from it. My biggest disappointment was that the Weasley twins didn’t say, “Give her [Umbridge] hell, Peeves,” and didn’t make the indoor swamp, but there were a bunch of other things that also bothered me.
My one main thing is this: why does Hollywood feel the need to constantly use prejudicial stereotypes of blacks in movies? I saw Transformers two weeks ago, which is when I first consciously noticed the phenomenon. The “black transformer” in the movie, Jazz (who apparently was white in the cartoon series) is the only transformer that doesn’t have a real occupation. When Shia LaBeouf asks the Transformers what their duties are, Jazz replies that his job is “keepin’ it real.” Later on in the movie, in a completely unnecessary scene, Jazz hops down on a car and says, “This looks like a cool place to kick it.” In HP7, one of Kingsley Shacklebolt’s few lines is something akin to, “You may not like that Dumbledore escaped, but you gotta hand it to him, he’s got styyyyle.”
Opinions vary on whether or not the utilization of these stereotypes of inflection and vernacular are offensive, but I know that it annoys me. Sometimes I think I may be overly sensitive to issues such as racism, sexism and homophobia. (This brings up the issue of how much political correctness is too much political correctness.)
Anyway, I am looking forward to HP7 all the more because of the HP5 movie’s failure to meet my expectations. Can’t wait to see if Harry kicks the bucket…
Thanks for inspiring me with an article topic for my class at Gov School... I stole some of the sentences I used posted on here, and now I'm going to be obnoxious and post the article I wrote for any of the four of you who actually read this. :)
Danielle Gorman
Race to End Racial Stereotypes in the Media
What responsibility does Hollywood have to provide characters that are not stereotyped on the basis of race? The prominence of stereotyping in the movie industry cannot be mistaken. It is not merely old classics such as Breakfast at Tiffany’s that suffer from a lack of political correctness, but also new hits such as Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and Transformers that pigeonhole racial groups into specific stereotypes. While Tiffany’s depicts Asians as unintelligent and harsh-tempered with its rendering of Mr. Yunioshi (Caucasian actor Mickey Rooney), Harry Potter and Transformers draw racial lines in subtler ways.
Opinions vary on whether or not the utilization of stereotypes are offensive, but I know that it bothers me. Sometimes I wonder if I may be overly sensitive to issues such as racism, sexism and homophobia; but, I am still surprised by how often I overlook closed-minded depictions of various groups. I first noticed the phenomenon of racial prejudice in movies a few years ago when watching Breakfast, but I renewed my realization that cinema often simplifies racial definitions to the simplest, basest terms when I saw Transformers on July 4th.
When Shia LaBeouf asks the Transformers what their duties are, Jazz replies that his job is “keepin’ it real.” Jazz, the “black transformer” (who apparently was white in the cartoon series), is the only Autobot to serve no real purpose. In a completely gratuitous scene, Jazz sprawls his legs over a car and declares it a “cool place to kick it.” My integrative class discussed the related phenomenon of black characters usually being among the first killed off.
Some scholars exclaimed, “the black guy dies first, even when he’s a robot!” The only real verdict at which we arrived, however, was that stereotyping is a tricky tool. Many feel that stereotypes manifest the attributes of groups’ majorities, and thus many believe that portraying racial groups as identical to whites in behavior would be an inaccurate and unfair representation of other races’ cultures.
Although no overtly offensive things are said about Shacklebolt and no overtly negative images of blacks are presented in Harry Potter, the movie’s stereotyped portrayal of the adult black man begs the question: why does Hollywood feel the need to constantly reinforce stereotypes of blacks in movies? Kingsley Shacklebolt, a black Englishman, drawls his words and has an inflection distinct from the Caucasian characters when he says, “Fudge… you may not like him, but you can't deny it... Dumbledore's got styyyyyle.” The interesting piece to note about this is that in the book by J.K. Rowling, the magical portrait of Phineas Nigellus Black says this statement… And Phineas Nigellus, an ancestor of Sirius Black, is a Caucasian.
Opinions vary on whether or not the frequent utilization of racial vernacular in the movies is offensive. Although many are offended by movies’ portrayal of diverse groups, others feel that political correctness is overemphasized and that too much sensitivity is a bad thing. Some contend that the depictions of blacks, Asians, etc. in the movies are, to a large extent, accurate. I often worry that others will disagree with my unbending views on issues such as racism, sexism and homophobia, and I also wonder if I am “too politically correct.”
Ultimately, the discussion of racism and prejudice in the media provokes more questions than it resolves. Whether or not you condone racial stereotyping, be cognizant of the portrayals of race, gender, and sexual orientation in the media. Consider the implications of these portrayals and draw your own conclusions about their accuracy and tolerability. Analyze your world with a critical eye, and exercise your power to affect it.
I get really annoyed by people who are constantly annoyed by Harry's supposed "whiny nature".
Every teenage boy goes through an angsty stage, and Harry is really no different. Add that he has enormous pressure on him to kill or be killed, and you have a very troubled boy. I think if he DIDN'T get upset, he wouldn't be a believable character. It makes Harry a lot more real and concrete rather than some great impervious hero that's above basic human emotions.
Regardless of whether his emotions make him more real or not, the way he acts is simply aggravating.
Albert, I definitely agree that Harry's dramatic I'm-so-misunderstood behavior is aggravating, but Tina has a point. It is supposed to be.
As for the movie... I think it was the best adaptation so far, but they did leave out some good parts. I am still annoyed that they never explained who Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs are and how they invented the Marauders' Map. Oh well. I figured out that people get angry when you explain over and over that the movies pale in comparison to the books.
As for the last book, I stayed up all night to read it. And yes, Mr. Lazarow, your mythical archetype explanation did slightly detract from my enjoyment. I did cry however. I guess I was a bit overly sentimental at 4 AM.
I agree that Rowling is not a brilliant writer whose efforts should be universally studied to benefit general literary knowledge, but she did make things fit nicely together in the end. I was not disappointed. I look around and see all these pointless Pixar movies and kids' shows (I have little sisters, so I know). At least Harry Potter has some positive moral values. If it cannot draw a young audience away from Spongebob long enough to make them appreciate reading, than I have to argue that the Harry Potter series has some benefit to society.
Anyone else read the last book?
Yup, I read it. And I concur.
Theresa, I think a better question would be who hasn't read it...
*raises hand*
I locked myself up in my dorm and read it all day.
that last comment was me (Tina)
I'm on the final leg of the journey right now...I let The Boy read it first. He finished over the weekend, so I've powered through it over the past few days.
My most gratifying moment of life thus far: when The Boy looked up over the edge of the book at me and said (and I quote): "You're right, Dad. Evil does destroy itself."
I almost cried, right then and there. I'm so PROUD!
I shall withold further commentary until I am finished, but that should be sometime tomorrow, or Wednesday at the latest. At that point, I will post again, and we may have a grand time together debating the merits. Something for you all to anticipate?
LAZ
Post a Comment
<< Home